This is a shirt that I am sure many people have seen at some time or another. Sure it is a somewhat comical shirt for most of us but I am sure it offends many people. Some people come to America looking for a better life for one reason or another, not knowing how to speak English. What are they supposed to do? Are you implying that we should give everybody who wants to move into this country a literacy and English test to make sure they speak our language? Sure it is funny to make fun of other peoples languages because some of their words may sound funny to us. I am sure just about everyone has imitated a foreign accent or put together some fake-choppy Chinese sayings in front of their Asian friends. No harm, no foul but it may hurt others.As a citizen of the United States you are entitled to many things, and why just because you can not speak English should you be denied those rights? Most people feel intimidated or self conscience when others speak in a different language near you. If you do not understand what they are saying you of course assume the worse. You assume not only are they talking about you, but they are saying negative things about you. Of course why would they do anything but talk about you? Most of the time they are not talking about you anyway. So next time you think about making fun of your waitress's accent when you go for Chinese food, think again. If the roles were reversed and you were serving her American food in China how would you feel?
18 comments:
I don't really agree with that. I like the shirt and if it is offending to people, why don't they just learn the language? Sure, they might be fobs and not know what it even says in English, but whatever. When MY ancestors came to this country, THEY learned English. But now it's like we cater to the non-English speakers. Everything is in Spanish. EVERYTHING! I mean, you can't even tell the custodians anything because ALL THEY SPEAK IS SPANISH!!! They don't even understand English. And I'm sorry, but I find THIS offensive. I mean, our national language is English. I'm not saying that it's not nice that we're a big melting pot, but we can't communicate efficiently if we don't all speak the same language. I feel this is one of the factors that have led to stereotypes and racial issues--misunderstandings. We shouldn't let people keep their own languages if they want to assimilate into our population. And if immigrants don't want to be working minimum wage jobs because they don't speak English, then they better learn it soon. You may think this is mean, but if the situation was reversed, I would learn the language as quickly as possible! In fact, I visited Italy and Greece this past summer and I already knew Italian from taking 6 years of it in school, but I didn't know ANY Greek. And I learned some basic stuff like thank you, hello, your welcome, yes, no, good morning, etc. At least a lot of people there spoke English, but I think it's a nice contribution that I actually made some effort to speak their language instead of expecting everyone to be able to talk to me fluently in English. It's ridiculous now a days! I completely agree with the shirt. Learn English. Seriously, my mom works in an elementary school and they have such a large Latino community that they send letters home in Spanish and English for parents and have a bilingual kindergarten class which bascially enables kids to continue speaking in their native language--and none of the other teachers in any of the higher grades speak Spanish. How does this help our nation when we emphasize that racism should be over? Understanding starts with a common basis. And language seems pretty basic to me.
couple things:
1. the US Does not have a national language.
2. our custodians do know english (if i were them, i would be very offended)
3. you cannot take language AND WITH THAT CULTURE, away from ANYONE. yes, English maybe should be a second language, but other languages should not be taken away.
4. you are stereotyping a whole lot. "And if immigrants don't want to be working minimum wage jobs because they don't speak English, then they better learn it soon." i'm sorry but i find that plain rude and overly mean and insensitive. you know, not all immigrants work minimum wage jobs, but a whole lot of Americans do to!
5. people not knowing the English language is not half as riddiculous as that shirt.
6. WHO SAYS WE HAVE TO COMMUNICATE WITH LANGUAGE???
I would just like to note, as Alex did, that there is no national language in the United States.
1. Okay, so if that came off rude then I'm sorry. But my experience with the custodians (and mind you NOT the janitors, who work during school hours, but the ones who clean classrooms AFTER school) point towards the fact that a lot of them do not speak English. How many teachers do you have that write "Do Not Erase" on their boards and come in the next day to find that their boards have been cleaned? Because in my experience, we have to continually write phrases in Spanish in order to get what we want from them. My language teacher who speaks numerous languages even commented that she's relieved that she speaks Spanish or she would never be able to communicate with them. And I completely agree because I can never communicate with them either.
2. As for the fact that English is not our "national" language. I know that it's not official, but do the majority of us speak Spanish? Italian? Chinese? Japanese? No. What language is used the courts of law? In what language does the president of the United States of America address the nation in? I could go on and on, but I'm assuming people would find that rude and condescending as well, so I'll avoid being sarcastic and obnoxious.It may not be the "national language" but it's definitely the RECOGNIZED language in our country. It's really diverse here on the East Coast and in Texas and California, but you go out to Kansas or South Dakota, and what do the majority of people speak? We have to remember that the US doesn't just include the East Coast, it's all of America.
3. I'm not saying that CULTURE needs to be taken away from immigrants. I don't believe I ever MENTIONED culture. All I'm saying is that racism stems from misunderstanding. And if we want to avoid it maybe everyone should have a common language to communicate our differences, etc. You can still retain your culture and learn a different language. Did everyone miss the comment I made about my ancestors learning English when they moved to this country? That's the whole point of America being a melting pot. Do you think we would have such a diverse nation without different cultures. And I mean, historically speaking some of our language has been affected by the languages of immigrants, but in the end they still learned English to communicate. You can retain your own languages and culture at home, but it's ridiculous to assume that everyone can speak your language outside your own family or community. I'm not going to become fluent in 15 different languages just so that I can talk to everyone and fully understand them!
4. As for being offensive and general towards immigrants, I was being realistic. When you speak only one language upon entering this country your opportunities are definitely very limited. You come to this country only speaking, let's say Swedish, for randomness's sake (and I'm Swedish, so I'm not insulted). What job can you expect to get only speaking Swedish and being unable to communicate with anyone who doesn't speak Swedish? Sure, you might be lucky and have a family member who owns a store, etc. but let's take that out of the discussion and make them totally unconnected immigrants. As far as I know, minimum wage jobs are some of the only opportunities for careers. So if you think this is being insensitive, can you find a job besides this for them? Even to be a UN interpreter, you need to speak more than one language in order to translate. To teach this you have to have a degree and most likely have to have a general knowledge in English in order to communicate with the staff where you are applying for a job as they most likely don't all speak Swedish there.
5. Everyone has their own opinion of the shirt. I will calmly listen and read your opinion of it, but it doesn't mean you can condemn my opinion. My opinions are my own ideas. It's an opinion. If you don't agree with my opinion that's fine. I'm not changing my opinion and you're probably not changing yours. There is no right o wrong because they are subjective. Some people find this shirt offensive, but I think it expresses a valid point. It may get it across in a "rude" way, but I still agree with the opinion.
6. As for language, sure there are other modes of communication, but language and words are the main way we communicate. Sign language only gets you so far because not everyone knows it. The same goes for body language. Watch a TV show without any sound because according to you we don't need to communicate using language. So body language should be enough to convey the entire message. If we can't communicate using language I really don't understand how entire messages can be conveyed using hand signals. Paper and pencils are not always readily avaible to draw with and some of us are horrible artists and cannot ever win at Pictionary. So to me, language is the most effective and reasonable form of communication.
I have to say that i agree with both sides of the argument to an extent. Alex does make a good point that America does not have a national language. i also agree that America DOES speak English primarily. ALL money in America is printed in English. ALL official court documents are printed in English. ALL street signs are printed in English. HOWEVER, we must be open to other cultures. it is wonderful that we can call ourselves a melting pot, that we can accept all people for who they are and where they come from. BUT, a nation is also built upon a good government and a government can only be established through verbal communications. no matter what Alex says, we as a community must be able to SPEAK to each other with WORDS. Body language can only tell a person so much. the best possible solution is to invent a language for every country to speak to each other and create a new WORLD language, and for as far as that goes, i wish you well
i'm sorry, but this statement sounds so degrading and uppity:
"Because in my experience, we have to continually write phrases in Spanish in order to get what we want from them."
yes, maybe not ALL custodians speak perfect english. but don't dare assume that they aren't trying. you are making them sound like the bad guys. i know men who came from different spanish speaking countries to get any job they can to support their family SO THEY COULD LIVE in (insert country name here). should they apologize that night school is not their main priority at the moment?
and it is technically NOT REQUIRED for anyone to learn english. i find there is just as much of a population of "spanish speaking" people to "english speaking" people. and we must give all of these hard workers credit. what most people don't understand is that without them THIS COUNTRY WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO FUNCTION! have you tried to communicate with one of our custodians lately? because i find that i can communicate just fine with every member of the janitorial staff at EBHS and i truly have a great deal of respect for each individual. everyone is very nice, friendly, hard workers, and they have all helped me out numerous times. so a board gets erased. BIG DEAL. there are more important things in life! wait... i have an idea... REWRITE WHAT WAS ON THE BOARD! omg! copyright that statement!
Now honestly, maybe instead of complaining about A,B,C,D what about thanking any member of the custodial staff because few people realize just how much they do for our school. at least smile at a member. i do every single day.
But STILL nobody can expect anyone to learn their language of choice. Sally should not be EXPECTED to learn Joe's language of choice, and Joe should not be expected to learn Sally's langauge of choice. Being that WE DO NOT HAVE a national language, THIS IS A TWO WAY STREET.
while i do agree racism can come from misunderstandings, we DO NOT need to communicate our differences. communicate what is similar. Language is NOT THE ONLY WAY OF COMMUNICATION. Smile at someone. Wave. High Five. Easy stuff. and slowly everyone can begin to learn each other's languages. THINK ABOUT EUROPE FOR A MOMENT. Say French is the national language of France.
well not only do the citizens of france know french, but also the surrounding languages in other countries because EVERYONE respects EVERYONE ELSE's language and learns each others. AND THIS is how to communicate with neighborhing countries.
The point of a melting pot is not so everyone can all come here and learn english. the point is so everyone can come here, but respected, respect everyone else, recognize differences and love each other because of similarities and differences. Love other peoples languages. last time i checked, english is not the only language valid in this meling pot. that would be one boreing soup.
While you make a point about maybe not finding the best job because you speak Swedish, that is not completely true. i see your view, but what if this individual creates their own store? starts their own buisness? start out at minimum wage but then work their way up to a manager person? so no, minimum paying jobs are not your only option when you only speak one langauge.
while i am not trying to make you change your opinion, i am simply debating it. i am sorry if you feel otherwise but understand i am not trying to insult you in anyway.
and i am not talking about television shows. i am talking person to person. if you meet someone you never met before who speaks a totally different language, if you smile at them and wave, they will be able to smile back and say hello to. i am not saying you will be able to have a full out intellectual conversation, i am saying that humans are capable of reading and responding to other humans feelings, reactions, and actions.
a woman once came into the store where i work. she was elderly and spoke very little english. she came up to me and began motioning to her hair. all she was saying was "need" so i took her directly to the back of the store where the shampoo was. she squeezed my hand said something in another language (i want to say rapid spanish?) and i shook my head yes because i understood that she was thanking me. i could not interpret one word she said but i understood she was trying to thank me. and she understood that i would do anything to help her.
we can communicate in many many ways. human touch and at the same time silence is so necessary.
i went to group therapy.
yes i admit it. i went to group therapy. you were not allowed to touch, high five, hug, etc.
and while a person talked about their troubles, every person in their room was often speechless, and just passing a tissue to this person was how we could say everything would be alright. and the speaker knew we were there for them.
you do not need language to speak.
Brett? i am curious to see your opinion.
Really? You're not trying to insult me? Because saying that I'm being uppity and degrading seems insulting to me!
Maybe you don't agree with me about all my opininos and I most certainly don't agree with you. My point is that we shouldn't have to find ways around language problems, we should just solve them in the most direct way ever.
Starting a store takes money. Many immigrants do not have money.
Another point that I would like to make is that, sure there is a large Spanish speaking population on the East Coast, in Texas, California, etc. but what about all the other ethnicities in our area? EB has a lot of people of Asian decent. Should we try and communicate with them in Mandarin? And Edison has a large Indian population. There are 40 DIFFERENT dialects of Indian. How are we going to communicate with all of these different ethnicities? There has to be a boiling point at some time.
And I honestly don't find you "solution" very practical. I'm talking about social situations. How are other ethnicities supposed to interact with us as more than acquaintances with whom we communicate through high fives and smiles. That's just stupid! I mean, come on. True communication depends on language, which you have demonstrated by failing to come up with a plausible solution for real communication in real social situations.
i think Kevin sums this up greatly.
BUT i said that the comment was uppity and degrading. i do not know you or your personality so i cannot make a judgement on that. and even if i did know you, i would not judge you. But now seriously, can you HONESTLY tell me that the comment was NOT DEGRADING?
And forcing people to change to one single language is wrong. NOW i AM NOT SAYING THIS WILL HAPPEN BUT Imagine if the entire country was told, we now must speak french to everybody. That is it. The only language which you could legally speak. Are you fluent in french? i know i am not. And a whole lot of people in America ARE NOT FLUENT in french. How would you feel? Well, that is how every non-English speaking individual would feel. Learn English over night! And deal with it!
Now i honestly think you are taking some of these words too literally. i am not saying oh let’s go around and speak in motions and hand signals.
i am saying if we need to get a point across to another who cannot speak english it can be done and it is not necessary to force anyone to learn another language. There does not need to be a boiling point. Last time i checked we were not taking field trips to random states and towns to try and speak to non-English speaking people, having full out conversations using your hands and body language.
i am not saying that motions and hand signals is the solution. i am saying if you need to get a point across, then you can. And i am also talking about social situations.
And there are many types of communications. And in my opinion, Saying that we should not let others keep their own language is rude. What if there was a decision one day that all of a sudden we couldn’t speak english?
Now saying my opinion is stupid and such and then half of the things you said i find offensive. Though i speak english, i am offended for those who do not. though i try, i am not the most open minded person. i can admit that. but my suggestion to you is to maybe try and be a bit more open minded and accepting. While you make fun of it, you don’t need language to communicate. and while we might not be able to have a conversation at first, we can slowly learn other languages so the people we come across can become friends or at least accept one another.
idk watch Pocahontas or something.
now this is where i will bow down gracefully for i do not want to escalate an argument any further. and say i respect your opinion, and i hope you accept mine.
I accept your opinion, I hope you understand that. I just don't find some of your opinions practical for everyday use. Now I'm not saying they should learn English overnight, but the least they could do is make an effort to try. My mom works with someone from Russia and when she came to this country, her parents and she did not speak any English. Now, she learned it in school, but her parents had to work to provide for their FOUR children AND they went to night school to learn English. So it's not impossible now-a-days to actually learn English, I just think we make it too easy for people to retain their own languages and not even make an effort. Wherever I travel I always try and learn that country's language because I respect their own culture and rituals, etc. and I think that if immigrants think this country is so great they totally want to move here they could at least make some kind of effort. It's ridiculous that kids who have lived here for years and go to school don't speak a word of English. Bilingual classes can only do so much for them. But clearly, my view is not the popular one. I'm not offended, I'll deal. But that doesn't mean I'm going to change my opinion. I see no differences between immigrants today and immigrants from 100 years ago, except for the fact that this country makes it easy for them to not learn English, which I feel is wrong and disrespectful to those of us who are English-speaking Americans.
Alex and I have been dominating this debate, though, so I, too, will halt my postings here because I want other people to be able to post their opinions about this as well without feeling like either of us are going to rip off their heads in the process of going at each other.
Well said, Anna, well said.
Truce?
This is such a non issue. Americans tend to think they are the superior beings on this planet. What do we do when we go on vacation to Europe? We EXPECT them to speak English. And guess what...they do speak English, because unlike America, Europeans except the fact that we need to cooperate toghether, and teach their children fromt he beggining of school to speak English. Yeah we have languauge in school, but I am a year removed from Spanish, and I couldn't converse to save my life. I've been taking Spanish since the 3rd grade, and can honestly say it taught me nothing. We need to incorporate a better system, and be more willing to accept other cultures.
Honestly, I find it a little rude sometimes when immigrants come to our country and don't know how to speak English. If they want to work in this society and raise a family, it's best that they learn the language as much as possible and not rely on everyone else to try and interpret what they're saying.
I work in the restaurant business, one as a hostess and one as a sous chef. And from my experience at both places, I find it very frustrating to try and communicate with some people in the kitchen. A lot of the ingredients and recipes are in Spanish and it is very hard to talk to the other chefs and cooks when I have questions.
Learning the language of a country where you have immigrated to is simply respectful. I don't think it should be ignored, and I appreciate anybody who tries to make that effort to better the community.
Ok so the topic here is the integration of other languages (other than English)
in America. Personally, I am all for people speaking whatever they are
comfortable speaking. If you grew up in another country and would like to
come live in the US but still speak your native language, go for it! If anything
I praise those people because they are what keep diversity in America and why
we are known as the melting pot, because after the second, third, and fourth
generations of immigrants, you can pretty much kiss the culture goodbye. We
have all just become another stereo-typical uncultured American. I know,
I am using extremes here, but for most people this is what happens. Just last
night when I was writing this I was talking to my mom about the topic.
There are so many different sub-categories of diversity (whether it be religion, language, nationality, skin color, etc..) but I guess the point I am getting to is not so much the religion that is brought into America and lost, but the culture of each nationality. Looking at my background, I am Polish, Russian, and Hungarian. But when I talk about those
countries, I feel no connection. My family wasn’t the type to cook the traditional eastern European foods, or keep the culture alive. When I think about it, I am just American. I’m from Jersey, I speak English and pretty much live with my “American Culture”. And I do wish that, my family could have kept the culture alive. To comment on what other people are saying, yes I do think that you still should learn the English language so you can communicate with people in the workplace, but that doesn’t mean you should be forbidden to speak Spanish, Chinese, or whatever language is your own. We are so quick to judge people on the fact that they can’t speak proper English, but then again neither can a lot of us. I have just started to hear about it this year but I have teachers commenting to the class that you is indeed spelled out Y-O-U, not U. It is a little hypocritical that we are criticizing immigrants, when we can’t even speak our own language. I’m sure you have all heard of spanglish? I know we all talk like that, jokingly but that is also just a reinforcement to have other languages integrated into English. Having traveled to other countries, I know how it feels to be an outsider, and not know the language at all. And when you do find a group of people that speak your language it is a comforting feeling, that maybe you’re not so alone. The one thing that I do not agree with though is the amount of street signs, and other signs that have dual languages. Why is it that we see mainly Spanish signs? Is it just that there is a market for it? And if that market grows, how many different cultures are we going to accommodate? It could get out of hand!!
As a citizen you are entitled to many thing but telling people what language to speak it defiantly not one of them. With that said I still firmly believe that if you do move here you need to speak at least some English [that is somewhat understandable]. It is okay to go and speak whatever language you like in your own home or to your family. But if you want to be successful I think you must know English. America is supposed to be a "melting pot" but if you can't speak English where will that get you. Just because you are expecting someone to learn the language doesn't mean you are taking away their culture either. We can still be one big melting pot and have most people speak English. If we didn't how would we move on? We can't, because somehow everyone needs to communicate.
That being said, it also reminds me like the movie Crash. The Arab guys store was vandalized and then we blamed the locksmith for not fixing his locks. In reality if he understood English a bit more he would have understood that the door was broken. He wouldn't have gone to the house and "shot" the guys daughter. The entire situation could have been avoided. I know learning to speak an entirely different language is easier said than done but I think that if everyone knew English, there would be better communication.
Though it can sometimes make things difficult, I think we still need to accept other languages being spoken in the United States. It is not fair to force people to speak english because there is no national language in the United States. Having said this I think people should still try to learn the english language. It definitly makes things easier. Whether it is doing business or everyday activities if two people are speaking different languages it is very difficult. This does not mean we should be frustrated everytime we encounter someone speaking a differerent language. I find it so stupid that it is almost funny when people go to get Chinese Food and when they are not being understood speak louder. It makes no sense.
My response to that is this...
I went to Italy last summer with my family. I saw how simple and beautiful life is in Europe compared to the glutoness fast paced way we live. We take everyone for granted and appreciate nothing. They were hanging their clothes out to dry by the window and walking calmly down the streets. I realized that being a foreigner it was my responsibility to adapt to them so I don't make myself look like a "foolish American idiot". There's a foreign edicit that we must follow in other countries same as they must follow here. If this is the country you want to live in, learn the culture and learn the language so you don't offend the locals. (Same goes for you moving to THEIR country)
Andrew E.
Maximus
There should be balance between the two sides. I mean, when you immigrate to America, you should definitely try to learn english because it's the language spoken majorily. But you also shouldn't forget your own language because if you do, the U.S. wouldn't be the same. If we all just spoke english, what happens to our diversity and our "melting pot" status? Any language should be welcome in the U.S. but like in any other country, you should try to learn the original one. And learning english can't hurt really.. considering almost every country is trying to learn it as well.
Also, I kind of think it's a little annoying when I see a little group of Chinese or Koreans huddling together speaking their native language in school. I don't know, anywhere else I don't have a problem but in school it bugs me sometimes. And what bugs me more is they call people like me who speak english and have white friends "twinkies".
Brett has a point about the fake-choppy Asian imitations. It does get annoying after a while.
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